Transport, Tourism & Logistics Insights: AI, simplicity and the future of passenger experience

00:00:03: AI innovation and passenger experience, this will be the most important change coming.

00:00:09: I think the passenger experience is something where AI will definitely help.

00:00:16: Simplicity is one of the things I really do miss in our industry and we do have too much over-engineered processes, but that's my hope.

00:00:24: it will change through AI.

00:00:28: This is Business Insights, a podcast brought to you by Global Strategy Consultancy Roland Berger.

00:00:36: Hello everyone.

00:00:37: Welcome to a new episode of Business Insight by Roland Berger.

00:00:42: My name is Florian Denny.

00:00:43: I'm partner in our Zurich office Global Head Aviation and it's my honor to have here Martin Gauss as our guest today.

00:00:50: Welcome Martin.

00:00:51: Thank you.

00:00:52: Martin, for those who don't know, but I think for most of you outside know that Martin is a gentleman with a super interesting career spanning from being a pilot to a managing director in an almost forgotten airline, Deutsche Britscher with DBA.

00:01:07: became a partial owner of DBA, went to Air Baltic, and now they need to become CEO of Gulf Air.

00:01:14: So before we talk about everything that drives you to Denmark, let's have a look back to understand your journey in aviation.

00:01:21: Basically, I see three chapters, which is Deutsche Britscher Airways, Air Baltic, and now Gulf Air.

00:01:27: Did I miss anything?

00:01:28: Yeah, there was in between Malev, Hungarian Airlines, and for a very short time, Zivus Airlines.

00:01:34: more like private jet operation, smaller airplanes.

00:01:37: But yeah, you captured it well.

00:01:39: Deutsche BA DBA and Air Baltic for a very long time.

00:01:43: And the new chapter will start soon, which is Gulf Air.

00:01:47: And in between the two interesting series, I didn't know actually.

00:01:52: Malif, I knew.

00:01:54: Very, very good.

00:01:56: So let me start at the beginning of your journey.

00:01:58: Was it the Martin and Bowie stream to become a pilot?

00:02:03: Not at all.

00:02:04: When I finished school, I wanted to study business and economics and I registered for it, started it.

00:02:10: and then I read an article in a German magazine called Kapital and the cover page said, alternative to studying become a pilot.

00:02:20: I read the article, I saw how long it would take and what you could earn.

00:02:25: I wanted to become a pilot and did everything to see if I can become one, like get a medical, asked airlines at that time, only Lufthansa and LTU were something I knew.

00:02:37: And then I started the journey paid for my education as a pilot two years and became a pilot with an ATPL, with a pilot license, and I started applying for pilot jobs.

00:02:49: So that's how I got into the industry and the Deutsche BA, which was founded at that year when I applied, gave me a job on the Boeing seven three seven, which was unusual at that time.

00:02:59: And I became a co-pilot, nineteen ninety two on a Boeing seven three seven with the British Airways subsidiary in Germany.

00:03:06: That's super interesting because you started your career on your right hand side and became not only the managing director later, but even partial ownership.

00:03:16: How did this happen?

00:03:18: In the first year when I was a co-pilot, I was living in Berlin, the chief pilot at the time, asked me to type something into the computer, a document, a minimum equipment list for those of you who understand the pilot job.

00:03:32: So I typed that list from paper into a computer so that it was digitalized.

00:03:37: And through that, I got engaged more and more in the work of operations departments.

00:03:43: And over the years, I took different jobs in... airline operations from ground operations, crew planning.

00:03:49: I became the director of flight operations, heading the operations department.

00:03:53: And I had a very good education.

00:03:56: British Airways did a very good job because over all these years they had very good training programs.

00:04:01: And I learned all the elements of an airline operations.

00:04:06: And then I think the luckiest part was when the airline was sold.

00:04:10: Hans Rudolf Wörl, an icon in the aviation industry in Germany, he bought the company and he trusted me and the colleague, the technical director at the time, Peter Wojjan, to jointly run the company as managing directors.

00:04:25: and he gave us the trust, he offered us shares and I had the chance, was it my early thirties, to be a managing director of an airline and to the vision I had for the airline, to transform it into something which makes money, I could execute it.

00:04:42: and at that age, People said that that was early, but that's the reason why I'm more than twenty years running airlines and doing this job.

00:04:51: So I was lucky and I got the trust of a person who understood very well how our industry works and it worked.

00:05:00: Otherwise, we wouldn't do that podcast today.

00:05:02: That's true.

00:05:02: I'm very happy that it worked and very happy that you're here today.

00:05:06: So if I look in the industry, from a pilot to a CEO, we do have some examples, but becoming owner is different.

00:05:15: What did change for you as a margin, as a person, when you not only become the managing director, but it was your money?

00:05:24: I always wanted that because I grew up, my father had his own company, so I grew up... With an entrepreneurial spirit and I always wanted it and actually over the years after I was a shareholder in DBA I also it was in my contract I wanted to become a shareholder again and going for an IPO would have been the chance to do so.

00:05:45: so it is in me.

00:05:46: I'd like to be a shareholder.

00:05:48: I'd like to be at risk what I do and and today in larger companies nearly all board members are incentivized with shares and so it's something I like because I think somebody who is in charge of a large company should also be at risk with his own money.

00:06:08: As you know, me starting my career later, much later in Lufthansa, but one question I do have for you, how was it to be the very first serious competitor to Lufthansa who owned the market basically?

00:06:24: We were competing from ninety two every year head to head with.

00:06:30: I remember all the domestic flying with Lufthansa and what we changed then was we said okay we transform it and make it we call it the business class for everybody.

00:06:42: and kept the middle seat free when possible, gave everybody the same snack.

00:06:46: So at that time a revolutionary thing.

00:06:48: today, I think most airlines do it this way.

00:06:51: I remember the chocolate.

00:06:53: Yes, and then the chocolate was introduced.

00:06:56: We gained market share, especially in the premium segment and we're talking here mainly domestic German flying, but also European flying.

00:07:03: And we gained market share months on months.

00:07:06: The concept worked.

00:07:07: Yes, competition was hard.

00:07:09: And of course, Lufthansa was always the number one, but we were the number two taking market share, especially in the premium segment.

00:07:17: So at that time it worked very well.

00:07:19: Then Air Berlin bought the company and then they transformed it.

00:07:23: into something else.

00:07:25: They grew it because they were at that time already at the stock exchange.

00:07:29: They bought the company and then they put their concept into it.

00:07:34: So the end of DBA was being sold to Eberlin.

00:07:39: What would that mean for you?

00:07:41: I was, as a shareholder, I exited.

00:07:44: Then as a managing director, I had a new contract with Eberlin, but running DBA still and doing the integration and I did that for seven months.

00:07:57: And then I exited because that integration, so Air Berlin as the new shareholder wanted to fully integrate DBA and they did.

00:08:04: So I left and then started a temporary job at the Zeros Group, which included smaller airlines like Augsburg Airways, Leasing Company, a private jet company.

00:08:16: And then I was headhunted to my left Hungarian Airlines.

00:08:20: larger carrier with a lot of politics at the time, which I wasn't so exposed to.

00:08:24: So going to Hungary, having a Russian state bank and the Hungarian government as shareholders was a new experience.

00:08:31: And a complete different company was a very long legacy.

00:08:35: I learned a lot in that company doing a transition there, bringing it to operational profitability.

00:08:40: But then again, after two and a half years, I was headhunted away.

00:08:45: and ended up for a temporary job in Latvia to run a Baltic.

00:08:51: I thought for about a year.

00:08:53: It ended up to be thirteen and a half years.

00:08:55: for about one year.

00:08:56: Look,

00:08:57: I only know that you've been there a three and a half years, but I wasn't sure that this.

00:09:03: I didn't know, actually, I have to say that it was not thought that long.

00:09:07: But what was your vision talking about becoming the CEO of Air Baltic?

00:09:13: What was your vision when you started the journey and regal at this time?

00:09:17: The company was technically bankrupt and they needed to find somebody who would present a turnaround plan.

00:09:25: which I did, I had four different options which are presented to the government at the time and together we choose an option to shrink the airline significant, simplify it from a fleet point of view and bring it back to profit which was executed very well and after the first year where we developed the plan.

00:09:45: they asked me to stay on and to also execute that plan and that's why I signed up for a new contract.

00:09:51: And I ended up signing up for new contracts again and again because the company had to be, so it went into profitability.

00:09:59: But then it went into short before an IPO, we hit COVID.

00:10:04: So company was again in a situation where you had to do a turnaround, which was also done.

00:10:09: And then when COVID was over, the Ukraine war started, which impacted the company.

00:10:14: So, and again.

00:10:15: But then after thirteen and a half years, there came a sudden end and I left the company.

00:10:20: I come to this back later, but let's start again at the very beginnings.

00:10:25: Was it clear to you because a Baltic runs a very impressive business model or an interesting business case from outside in perspective?

00:10:32: It has its own airline operation, but half of the fleet is a Acme.

00:10:38: so aircraft crew maintenance and insurance.

00:10:42: Was there always the idea to run such a dual business model or did this evolve over time?

00:10:50: I joined in two thousand eleven in a company which was technically bankrupt but had aircraft types Fokker fifty Q four hundreds Boeing seven five sevens Boeing seven three seven classics.

00:11:01: so a big mix of fleet

00:11:03: army

00:11:04: and quite a big network and.

00:11:06: it was clear that we would need to simplify the fleet.

00:11:09: That was something.

00:11:11: We did not talk about wetleys at the time.

00:11:13: And in early, we took a decision to take an aircraft.

00:11:18: At that time, it wasn't available.

00:11:19: Airbus A-to-twenty, CS-three hundred at the time.

00:11:23: And we ordered that later became the launch customer.

00:11:27: It wasn't clear when I joined that the airline would be ending up today with a single fleet and two business model, one workplace and the scheduled business, that wasn't clear when I joined, that developed over the years.

00:11:41: Why would you go for the, at this time it was so-called C-Series today, Airbus to training?

00:11:47: What was the decision to opt for an aircraft that was basically not on the market in such a difficult situation that AirBaltic was at this time?

00:11:57: When I joined, there was already from the previous management discussions with Airbus on A-Sui-twenties to replace in the future the Boeing sevens with sevens.

00:12:07: There was no discussion with Boeing, so I invited Boeing also back on the table to have that discussion about the future types.

00:12:14: So there was Airbus A-Sui-twenty or three nineteen.

00:12:17: which also didn't exist.

00:12:18: Boeing had the Max didn't exist at the time, so we invited Boeing.

00:12:22: And then Bombardier came and said, we also have an aircraft.

00:12:25: Initially, my response was, no, we need something proper.

00:12:30: But they convinced us that we should look at the CS-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M- Airbus a to twenty one and and we signed a contract with bombardier for the future fleet.

00:12:52: none of the aircraft existed.

00:12:53: so we had to wait for quite a while and then we became the launch operator of the a to twenty three hundred and today we know it was a very big success at.

00:13:02: Baltic is the largest operator of the a to twenty three hundred with an order of up to a hundred aircraft.

00:13:07: so yeah it was.

00:13:08: one of the big successes Air Baltic had and with that of course leading to a single fleet type and then being able to set up a new business, the wetleys business, which also came out of the need when the Ukraine war started.

00:13:24: There was a surplus of aircraft because we couldn't fly to Russia and Ukraine anymore and therefore we gave them into a short-term wetleys.

00:13:30: That was so successful that today this builds the second part of Air Baltic's business model.

00:13:35: It came out of a need.

00:13:37: But then today it's an important and profitable part of the business.

00:13:41: Revenue-wise is this half-half or just to give our audience an idea because it's a very seldom model in this size at least.

00:13:51: I'm not into the numbers anymore because I left half a year ago, but revenue-wise, of course, the scheduled operation is significantly higher.

00:14:00: From an EBITDA margin, the wetlist business is significantly better.

00:14:04: So it's a very good business for a Baltic.

00:14:07: And to my knowledge, the airline will continue developing both parts, grow the schedule traffic and the wetlist business.

00:14:15: And the wetlist business was global?

00:14:17: Or what was the setup and the idea behind it?

00:14:21: It started with different European carriers and today it is exclusive with Lufthansa Group, but the intention was to also have it globally.

00:14:30: As I understand, there are ambitions to not only have it done for Lufthansa Group, but also to expand beyond that.

00:14:38: But I'm not in the detail today, so I would have to read the news to find out.

00:14:43: Which shows that you have... really digested everything and good to see you here, a lot of things.

00:14:51: But in your time you were really visionary introducing Starlink, correct me if I'm wrong, also as a lounge customer for a commercial airline.

00:15:02: I just read the news today that WestJet also became a Starlink customer and they had the very first flight having it on board.

00:15:10: And they also invented a very interesting frequent travel app.

00:15:19: So there's one which is always missed.

00:15:21: A Baltic as the first airline in the world introduced Bitcoin as a form of payment in two thousand fourteen.

00:15:28: Nobody knew what Bitcoin was including me at the time.

00:15:31: The CFO, it was his idea, did it and very successful.

00:15:36: We did a calculation when I was still in a Baltic.

00:15:38: what would have happened if we would have kept all the bitcoins on the balance sheet from that time.

00:15:44: Pretty interesting calculation but of course we were not allowed to keep it.

00:15:47: it was always converted into euros but that was also an innovation.

00:15:52: We were the first airline in Europe to have Starlink on board and that came.

00:15:58: because we always wanted to have an internet connectivity which has a better speed than what is available today and Starlink was the only one or is the only one today which is available with that kind of speed.

00:16:11: It was quite a journey to get that done because we needed to get SpaceX to accept us.

00:16:19: to do it as as one of the first carriers and that was very interesting to also the negotiations.

00:16:27: but then was also difficult was to get the types of certificate for the ABAS A-iii because it's a European aircraft so not as easy as if it would have been a US aircraft.

00:16:37: we needed an ASA certification.

00:16:39: but all of that happened and Air Baltic is flying with Starlink many others now to follow.

00:16:45: I also read the news about WestJet.

00:16:47: I think they converted already a hundred aircraft very very impressive but it really works and customers really like it when they have Starlink on board in their Volte.

00:16:56: it was also combined with a commercial strategy for the future which they will have to tell.

00:17:02: because they're rolling it out.

00:17:04: But it is something which leads to the highest net promoter score in Europe for any airline which a Baltic holds.

00:17:12: And Starling is for sure one part of it.

00:17:13: So yes, another innovation.

00:17:16: The NFTs, there was a time in twenty one when NFTs were hyped for blockchain.

00:17:22: So pictures on the blockchain.

00:17:24: And we combined the frequent flyer program and issued NFTs, made money with it because we sold them and you collected extra points.

00:17:34: So a very interesting project at the time.

00:17:37: The hype around the NFTs has calmed down, but it worked.

00:17:41: And we demonstrated from a technology point of view that you can bring a frequent flyer program on the blockchain.

00:17:49: I don't know what the latest is today, but at the time it was really an innovation and it was very much liked by the customers who used it.

00:17:58: I know many people who had a Planey at the time and were very happy with it, showing it.

00:18:04: There's for sure more to come.

00:18:05: There's a lot of AI, which we all see in the industry, and also a Baltic is doing a lot there.

00:18:11: But I have to say, as much as I like all the innovation I brought or was responsible for, I'm moving on and hope to bring new innovations.

00:18:19: And I have a lot of ideas to Gulf Air, which I will be joining soon.

00:18:25: Absolutely.

00:18:26: One thing before we getting into the future and your ideas about the future, on the Bitcoin.

00:18:32: I wasn't aware actually, Martin, that you already started in to accept Bitcoins.

00:18:38: Did anyone, just out of curiosity, that even pay that you have to get with Bitcoin that early?

00:18:45: Yes,

00:18:46: especially the early people, because Bitcoin was very cheap at that time, and the people who were early had.

00:18:52: bitcoins because it was not that common and they used them for payment.

00:18:56: But how it worked?

00:18:58: You opened the payment link and then you could transfer the bitcoins.

00:19:02: At that time, it already worked and there was a payment provider who transferred it for Able to get into euros.

00:19:09: And if we would have reimbursed the ticket, we would have reimbursed it in euros because we were not allowed to hold the bitcoins.

00:19:15: But we did it.

00:19:16: And yes, especially in the early years, a lot of passengers, Today, I would recommend, don't use your Bitcoins to pay for Airlines.

00:19:25: You just keep them for the future.

00:19:28: But at that time, it was an innovation, first in the world.

00:19:32: You can Google it, and you type in first airline Bitcoin world, and you will find Abaltic.

00:19:38: So all the credit for that goes to the CFO of Abaltic, Witels-Jakrolevs, because he came to me and said, what do you think about it?

00:19:46: I said, I don't know what Bitcoin is at that time.

00:19:49: Now you became such a

00:19:50: promoter of Bitcoin.

00:19:54: Bitcoin, Staling and NFT Plainies.

00:19:59: So three really great innovations.

00:20:03: What are the ideas for your next chapter, Martin?

00:20:07: If you look at all the ideas, all of them are around the customer, right?

00:20:12: So what I tried, Baltic was a small airline.

00:20:15: There's all these giant airlines who have all the resources.

00:20:18: So we had an airplane, which was very modern, and we looked for innovation, which has additional benefits for the customers.

00:20:27: And that, I think, led to today's high net promoter score of the airline.

00:20:33: what I would like to see for our industry and I will be at the forefront of that because it's not me having the ideas.

00:20:39: There's organizations, there's people who have ideas to find the right ideas to move forward.

00:20:47: And again, if you are small and agile, and I think that's very important, you can maybe go faster than somebody else.

00:20:53: You can maybe test also with companies who come and have new ideas.

00:20:58: And especially on the AI front, I think, Everybody knows what is possible today, but there will be things we all don't know about for the future.

00:21:08: And our industry unfortunately doesn't have yet a seamless experience because it's not like if you order something on Amazon, whatever you order, you can somehow go on Amazon.

00:21:19: For everybody, it's the same.

00:21:20: Around the globe, you order it and it is delivered to you regardless what it is.

00:21:26: We don't have that in the airline industry.

00:21:28: Every airline does it differently around the globe.

00:21:31: So what I'd like to see, and let's see how far we can go there, that we simplify it.

00:21:38: Everybody talks about simplifying the journey for the passenger, but it's still very old-fashioned.

00:21:44: If we look at the process, not the flying, that's very good, but at the process of as a passenger to get a ticket and to go through airports to go.

00:21:54: to the airline and each airline has different ways how they do it.

00:21:58: so if I can improve the passenger experience here.

00:22:01: that is something I'd like to see for the future.

00:22:05: and then I think I need to start and talk to the team at Kalfa which has seventy five years experience to see what they have prepared because I'm sure that that airline, which was once an iconic carrier in the Gulf States and is still a very strong name, has a lot of potential.

00:22:23: and going there, I'd like to see the potential.

00:22:26: Super interesting because I just came back from the World Aviation Forum in Lisbon yesterday and you see all these tech providers with enormous range of possibilities.

00:22:37: But looking at the implementation, I feel we're

00:22:42: a bit

00:22:43: stuck at the moment.

00:22:45: Would you share that impression?

00:22:47: It takes very long for these innovations to be implemented.

00:22:51: Our industry's safety is the highest priority and we need to keep that in mind.

00:22:55: So whatever you touch something, there's always an element of safety to it.

00:23:00: And then we're transporting passengers, we have customer data, we have a lot of data protection laws.

00:23:06: So when you bring an innovation, it sounds easy, but then to implement it in an airline is always tricky.

00:23:11: And there's so many good ideas out there.

00:23:14: That's why maybe as a smaller airline, you have more the chance to test something on a small scale than if you're one of the global leaders, because there it's much more difficult than to roll it out in a bigger airline.

00:23:28: Yes, but I agree with you.

00:23:30: There is a lot of complexity, with a lot of good ideas, but a lot of complexity.

00:23:34: The simplicity in our industry is definitely not there.

00:23:37: I like simplicity.

00:23:39: So to make the steps easy or delete the steps, Elon Musk says that he wants to delete the step, automate and so on.

00:23:46: I think that we need to look more at how can we simplify it and whatever innovation comes, try to simplify it and make the product with that better.

00:23:58: So there's a lot.

00:24:00: I mean, we can go around the world and all of us who fly a lot on different airlines see that every day.

00:24:06: And everybody would say, this could be done easier.

00:24:09: So we should work as an industry and try to make it easier and better.

00:24:15: And that's possible.

00:24:16: We can go with the future technology to have a better experience.

00:24:20: Every airline CEO says that, right?

00:24:23: like saying the same, but let's see, I think I managed very well in the previous company and that's something I really like and I have a track record of improving operations of an airline customer experience and I'd like to continue that path, not knowing what the future holds, what kind of technologies we can implement, but keeping it simple and improving the customer experience should be the way forward.

00:24:48: I fully agree.

00:24:49: Simplicity is off the essence.

00:24:51: It's something the airline industry urgently needs.

00:24:56: To me, it's a bit surprising because Yata now tries NDC for almost ten years, invented in fourteen, started to implement in sixteen.

00:25:05: Okay, we had the COVID years.

00:25:07: Now they're hunting for order, one order, order management.

00:25:11: And still, I would say that will change the airline for decades, but it will take another decade to be implemented.

00:25:18: So the path is very slow.

00:25:21: now having AI on the horizon duty that it will accelerate through AI.

00:25:28: or is AI another layer of complexity?

00:25:34: There will be airlines which will make it super complicated for them using AI because they see some.

00:25:40: So they will make it worse because the organization will have to follow so many rules and regulations before they can use JetGPT.

00:25:47: But if you let a little bit of freedom to people, there's very smart people, we will not know what kind of elements from AI will make it.

00:25:59: But yeah, startups, smart people should... be allowed to test to see what is best.

00:26:06: definitely we will get a boost through AI because the there will be.

00:26:11: if we look at revenue management again a Baltic introduced the the seed sale based on AI.

00:26:18: I think there's only a few years away when.

00:26:21: AI will do revenue management much better than the current systems do it.

00:26:24: The question is, will that come from an airline?

00:26:27: Will that come from one of the system providers today?

00:26:30: But that whole concept of, I always wanted a one click buy for a ticket, right?

00:26:34: It must come one day that you just click by like on Amazon, right?

00:26:38: You type in what you want and then you say one click buy.

00:26:41: Why can I not have that for a ticket?

00:26:43: And all the experts will tell me why it doesn't work.

00:26:46: I think there we will see major change coming in the future.

00:26:51: and it will be startups, it will be fast agile people doing this.

00:26:56: It probably will not come from the large organizations.

00:26:59: AI will help, but a lot of people will also overcomplicate it because they're going to put a lot of rules around it.

00:27:05: As always in our industry, you have all the rules around it, what you cannot do to then do something.

00:27:11: And I hope for the industry that we simplify things.

00:27:18: Whenever we introduce a rule, it's a global rule, we are not deleting rules.

00:27:24: We're not deleting rules when we have implemented them.

00:27:27: And I think the airline alone cannot because we have a global system and we have to follow global standards, but we need to challenge some of the things we do because they're really old fashioned.

00:27:37: I

00:27:38: fully understand we have to keep the procedures and the standards for the sake of safety and a safe operation.

00:27:46: But if it comes to commerce or commercialization, I hear a lot of defensive arguments why, as you just mentioned rightly, why something would not work.

00:27:57: And it's a bit of the pity because it really takes a hard bit on the customer journey.

00:28:03: And then I think there is a lot of improvement possible.

00:28:07: What is in your perspective the next big thing in the customer journey besides the one click which I really like and I wish that was implemented already?

00:28:18: What do you believe will be the next big thing?

00:28:21: I think some airlines are very good at it already.

00:28:24: That means the customer who has engaged with the airline and says, I will have a journey that through the app or through his personal device, that he at any time is aware of what's happening, so that he is feeling comfortable at any moment that what is happening next, that he is aware of it.

00:28:44: Whether that is the way through the airport, whether that's his bag, whether that's his seat, whether it's his entertainment, his food, his next purchase, where's his money, how did he pay?

00:28:52: All of these animals, some airlines are very good at it.

00:28:55: And I think the customer experience with the airline.

00:29:00: Because transporting the passengers from A to B will never be digitalized, right?

00:29:05: Not in our lifetime.

00:29:06: We will have that physically done.

00:29:08: But everything else is being digitalized.

00:29:11: And there we can improve.

00:29:12: And there will be airlines who will do it much better than others.

00:29:15: And there is a global difference on how people do it.

00:29:18: And also the experience... to come to an airport, to enter an airport and to enter the aircraft.

00:29:24: I think there's a lot to be done and there we will see innovations.

00:29:28: There will be airlines who do this better than others.

00:29:31: And what I like to do is always look at the ones who do it best in something and then see, is that something you can copy?

00:29:38: So I think that the biggest improvement in our industry will not come from a new technology.

00:29:45: It will come from a better passenger experience.

00:29:48: even more stressless than it is today, and not only in premium products, but also in the economy products, so that everybody who travels has that easiness and the transparency of what is happening to him.

00:30:04: And I hope that AI is enabling us as an industry to go much faster than we did in the last ten years.

00:30:12: This is super interesting and I believe, yes, I will change aviation, but my predictions is it will change the aviation.

00:30:23: Let's say it will not change the aviation to a degree that you really will ease your travel in the next five years, but afterwards something will happen and that will be very special.

00:30:34: Martin, as you stand on the edge of a new chapter in your life and you just explored and explained what the future can look like, so what are the lessons learned you take from your career into your next chapter and what are the next big things you will open up in your new adventure?

00:30:57: I think the lessons I learned is that I was always ambitious and I am ambitious today, but I could have been even more ambitious.

00:31:06: You underestimate the powers of if you are allowed to lead that you can take an organization with you and to take on new things and let organizations develop.

00:31:17: I think if I would have known what I know today in my earlier years, I would have pushed for more.

00:31:23: Also with the shareholders to say this is something which is good.

00:31:27: Now with the experience, I've seen a lot of things happening.

00:31:30: I think that for the future I will take and try to work with my shareholders.

00:31:35: to improve the business.

00:31:38: And there's no limit to improve.

00:31:40: I mean, we will improve flying the next hundred years.

00:31:43: And therefore, to be even more ambitious on going for the future, that that is something I would like to see.

00:31:50: while I do not know today, where we are in ten years, as I didn't know ten years ago, where I'm today.

00:31:56: I'm excited for the journey.

00:31:59: Super, and that brings me to my very last question.

00:32:01: What advice would you have given to your younger yourself?

00:32:05: By Bitcoin, I mean... So, that is something you should... I think everybody should say today, you're looking at it now, but I would... So if I look now back and I have kids in that age when I started, I would say be more ambitious and positive.

00:32:21: The world has so many chances now for everybody because of AI coming in and independent of where you are born today.

00:32:29: You can use the technology.

00:32:31: So I would say use it.

00:32:33: Be open and use whatever is there.

00:32:36: Don't exclude any possibility for yourself and for your ambitions.

00:32:40: That I would say to my younger self because Yeah, I was always thinking about.

00:32:46: maybe that is not possible.

00:32:48: Today I say no, no.

00:32:49: Try the impossible and see where you get to.

00:32:52: Try the impossible and see where you get to.

00:32:55: It's a wonderful statement for the end.

00:32:57: Martin, thank you very much for being here.

00:32:59: Thank you very much for the good talk and all the best for Gullfair and hope to see you soon again.

00:33:06: Thank you.

00:33:06: Thank you very much.

00:33:09: Thank you for listening to Business Insights by Roland Berger.

00:33:13: Roland Berger is a leading global strategy consultancy.

00:33:17: Our full-line service portfolio spans across all key industries and business functions.

00:33:23: Established in nineteen sixty-seven in Munich, we are renowned for driving transformation, innovation and business performance around the world.

00:33:32: For more information, visit our website at RolandBerger.com.